Forest of the Dead has been and gone in the realms of tea and crumpets, and the confusing, fantastical, scary, Alice-in-wonderland madness of a 2-parter has been resolved!
So, River Song was not the Doctor, the Master, Jenny, Rose, Jack or K9... she was just someone close to the Doctor... very, very, very close.
You can now see the full episode on youtube: here, here, here, here, and here
Enjoy!
rose has already been seen in the last episode, take a look at the wall behind mr moon when hes talking to the little girl take a look http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/duncan.grieve/BadWolf/photo#5209119229780415586
ReplyDeleteYup, I know. Still doensn't rule out the possibility of another mention though. The episode is largely focused on spoilers after all.
ReplyDeleteI still think she is a future incarnation of The Doctor himself (or herself).
ReplyDeleteArgh! Can't wait, I hope this gets posted soon after it airs...
ReplyDelete"I still think she is a future incarnation of The Doctor himself (or herself)."
ReplyDeleteRemember the "hello sweetie" thing, okay :/ XD
I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to accept that she might just be a future girlfriend, which is freaky enough for the poor Doctor who's STILL not over Rose.
ReplyDeleteHahaha I speculated it could be Jack as a joke... I hope nobody who thought the same was serious (or that I was when I posted that
ReplyDeletei guessed she whispered his name into his ear but why was she saying im really sorry before saying his name?! the episode really took a lot out of me emotionally! catherine tate is a great actress and lee at the end that made me cry!! im a massive 9/10/rose fan and its hard to say this but it just seems with every regeneration he is that little bit different that makes it hard as a viewer to say 'yes he loves rose only'.
ReplyDeletethe doctor said something like 'theres only one reason i would ever tell anyone my name' that scares me a little. he cant... die
ReplyDeletewhat did the doctor say right after he said 'u whispered my name to me', was it something along the lines of - theres only 1 reason i would give my name or summing like that?
ReplyDeleteworse episode so far, last week was so good too :(
ReplyDeleteWhen he said there was only one situation in which he would tell her his name, I took it as meaning when they got married. Does this mean we'll be seeing River Song again in the future, unless the Doctor's timeline gets changed and he doesn't meet her in the end...oh I don't know, I'm confused.
ReplyDeleteOh how good was that. I would like to know what the one circumstance for telling someone his name is...
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's because he dies.. it's too obvious. Only two weeks until Rose is (fully) back!
There was a mention of the Darkness coming again. Something in the end River narrating "May all the skies of the worlds turn dark..."
ReplyDeleteAnd this may happen in the finale to earth: "The stars are going out" remember.
"And then you remembered..."
ReplyDeleteThe Doctor's timeline gets changed when he's removed from time by Davros and the collapse of the parallel universe (think the overbearing themes of predestination so far which surely must be countered) so the Professor River Song arc doesn't necessarily have to be resolved (the Doc himself says in the Forest Of The Dead that timelines can be rewritten), or at least not on screen.
And I hate to step out of the speculative joys of this and countless other fan sites, and I know certain fans just won't want to acknowledge this, but do remember it's just (deep breath) a TV programme - the writers (or just Moffat himself) might just be trying to add even more confusion for the sake of writing a bloody good story and adding a bit more depth to the character of the Doc. The whole series does not have to add up to something relevant to the last episode. Stories are supposed to work on their own.
Story arc or not, that was an amazing two-parter and confirms that SM is a better writer than RTD will ever be - when he takes charge for series 6 it'll be even better than before.
So...
The overwhelming thing to keep restating is that the people in charge of the show KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. It isn't going to collapse in to the terrible sort of Pip & Jane Baker stories from the early eighties - if you want cack, rewatch those. This was BRILLIANT... just rejoice in it, watch and ENJOY.
I for one was in tears on several occasions, on the edge of the sofa the next.
i was disappointed with forest of the dead.
ReplyDeleteI thought the ending was a bit of a letdown, what happened to the shadows in the end?
also, i wasn't sure about song. why would the writers commit the doctor to a future with someone - it kind of rules out rose ending up with the doc doesnt it!
could someone get a screenshot of the inside of song's diary at the end when shes reading to the kids cos i could of swore i saw something in there quickly as she shut it!
did donna take song's diary about the doctor?
ReplyDelete"also, i wasn't sure about song. why would the writers commit the doctor to a future with someone - it kind of rules out rose ending up with the doc doesnt it!"
ReplyDeleteYes. Yes it does. Because he's not going to end up with Rose. And he's not going to end up with River Song either. Because she dies here. Were you not actually watching? Problem is what exactly?
does anybody know where you can watch this episode yet??? :(
ReplyDeleteanybody else noticed when river song whispers in his ear it sounds like backwards voices playing in the music?
ReplyDeleteany-one want to reverse it and see?
When can we in the US expect links up? Tomorrow-ish?
ReplyDeleteLinks are up now! :)
ReplyDelete''Yes. Yes it does. Because he's not going to end up with Rose. And he's not going to end up with River Song either. Because she dies here. Were you not actually watching? Problem is what exactly''
ReplyDeleteeven though she dies here he still meets her several times in HIS future and possibly even marries her in HIS future. That means in his future he isn't with rose, he is with river song.
does anyone think donna stole song's diary and will look in it?
does the doctor get younger with each regeneration, if so why was river saying her doctor was much older?
ReplyDelete"Rossy said...
ReplyDeleteanybody else noticed when river song whispers in his ear it sounds like backwards voices playing in the music?
any-one want to reverse it and see?"
I tried. As far as I can make out, they're not singing anything in particular.
It seems as if Moffat is already seeding plans for Series 6...
ReplyDeleteRiver Song mentioned the "Singing Towers on Delirium" - Delirium is a character in the Sandman comic series created by Neil Gaiman, who will reportedly be writing a script for Series 6.
Just a thought.
Theory about finger snap:
ReplyDeleteIts often been said that the dr and the TARDIS is linked, as one. Maybe by knowing is real name again and whole what happened in this episode the life energy between the dr and the TARDIS has been rejuvinated and given them an increased bond and a shared almost mind/concious, thus allowing the doctor to click to open the doors?
This episode was so so so so perfect. I did not see the ending coming, but it was great.
ReplyDeleteI give this episode 9.99/10, only because there was no mention of Rose.
Also, @twood: Blimey, thanks for the Spoilers! And isn't it Series 5 that Moffet is taking over?
daystardragon, yes, series 5... but I have decided to refer to it as series 6 and the specials as series 5 (at least for now) because they are still episodes...
ReplyDeleteI loved it. I thought the ending was great... that bit with Lee at the end was sad, my breath caught when I saw him and then he couldn't get her name out...
ReplyDelete"I thought the ending was a bit of a letdown, what happened to the shadows in the end?"
The Shadows gave the Doctor one day to get everyone out of the library, they retreated for the day. They're still in there - presumably no one can go back there.
>>I thought the ending was a bit of a letdown, what happened to the shadows in the end?<<
ReplyDeleteWell, they gave the Doctor a day, and it was resolved in far less than a day, so presumably they came back and nobody was there. So they're probably still roaming around the place.
My impression of the episode was so positive that...well...I don't think it would be acceptable to say what I told my friend on MSN when I was done watching it, since kids probably come here. ;) Lets just say it was a very...satisfying episode. *grin*
Woah, quick question:
ReplyDelete"Maybe by knowing his real name again and whole what happened in this episode the life energy between the dr and the TARDIS has been rejuvinated..."
Did the Doctor himself not know his own name? I mean, he picked "The Doctor" ages and ages and ages ago, as the Master told us last season; and we know his name was "hidden," or "burned in the stars," whatever that means, thanks to TFOP. Your comment implies that he was forced to forget - was this established in the older series?
I liked it a lot too, the only problem the storyline with River here seemed very similar to Astrid. First she dies, not just dies, but sacrifices herself to save the Doctor and other people. Then Doctor realizes her molecules/data/essence/whatever is still in the system, so he can save her. He runs manically and manages to get her image/save her digitally. Just only slightly different from Voyage of the Damned.
ReplyDeleteAnd what with all white clothes in digital world? Is this supposed to be heaven? As opposed to all 4022 people dressed in black. Seems a bit too suggestive.
Liked snapping fingers: perhaps Doctor could do it all along, he just never tried it, so assumed it's impossible :)
The conclusion of this two-parter was a lot better for me than the first half, though I still think it is shamelessly stolen from the Time-Traveller's wife. Even the ending in a a way. However, for all those Rose fans, (myself included), remember, the doctor lives for a VERY long time. He could theorhetically have a very long life WITH rose before she dies of old age and then meet River later on. Maybe Rose makes the Doctor "the complete" one River falls in love with.
ReplyDeletehey! ive just got it!
ReplyDeleteriver song has his screwdriver cos he can open the tardis with his fingers now!
carmen, do be honest I have no idea, just one of the voices in my head is telling me that he doesnt know his own name, or forgets that he is called thar. But most likely completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Doctor clicked open the TARDIS doors, I felt like it was him realizing a little more of his own potential.
ReplyDeleteOn Doctor Who Confidential, the actor who plays Professor River Song says that she has had a 'very close relationship with the Doctor from the future.' Hmm...
ReplyDelete@ chelz: sry, but he used to open it (or she, the TARDIS is a spaceship) with a key (seen several times in several eps and seasons, last time TSS s4), and not with his sonic screw-driver.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was the best s4 ep (up to now). SM is brilliant, I love his scripts! Am I the only one here who can accept the Doctor having also a life without Rose ( I also loved the s2 eps!, but live goes on ...) ?
Theta Sigma?
ReplyDeletethe second Doctor summoned his TARDIS with a cowboy whistle!
ReplyDeleteI think Theta Sigma is his nickname, not his name, but that could be a clue...
ReplyDeleteSo has there been discussion of darkness/shadow as the season arc? I'm thinking shadow proclamation twice, vashta nerada obviously, an ep called 'midnight,' and the stars going out! "All the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment accepted"--River Song . . . ooh, spooky
ReplyDeleteGreat episode, absolutely excellent. The reason he told her his name has to be that they got married?! Surely any priest marrying them wouldn't accept him saying his name was the Doctor :-)
ReplyDeleteOne question that was left open in my mind though, was why couldn't River and the other people in the system just come back out again like the original 4,022? They were in the system, so why not just teleport them out? Admittedly they 'got in there' in a different way via a download rather than teleportation, I can only imagine that's why they couldn't come back out. I bet the Doctor could eventually figure out a way to bring them back into the real world. Especially River, given that she was originally a robot in the first place (K9).
The 4022 people saved still had bodies. All of them were taken in the middle of teleporting, as was Donna, so although they were saved digitally, their bodies still existed.
ReplyDeleteAll of River Song and her crew no longer had bodies as they were all dead. The essence of them that was left in the system was taken from their little green spacesuit things. So their data ghosts were saved.
Thanks - that does make some sense, but where were their bodies?
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work on the site by the way
Well, both Daves, Miss Evangelistia and Anita had their bodies eaten by the Vashta Nerada, and River Song (I assume) was burned up when she saved the library, since there was a lot of bright light.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks, glad you like the site :)
Especially River, given that she was originally a robot in the first place (K9).
ReplyDeletegah, so wrong.
Riversong was her own person, not some re-incarnation.
Nah - definitely K9. You could tell from the ears.
ReplyDeleteMy some people are gullible
Is K9 returning for this series? I can't remember if he is or not.
ReplyDeletei bet he leaves her conciousness in the computer and then his futureself comes back and reconstructs a body or finds some way of teleporting her out of the system.Once she's been saved, he can work on it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that they're married. however, this doesn't mean i like her.
also why are there three beds in the room witht the childeren when she's reading to them? Who's the third child?
doctor who was getting really oring, but SM write brillant stuff. i hope he's contributing more this season.
the kids are ella, joshua and cal
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, they are married. But i don't think that's the only situation he would tell her his name ;) ... Were there any hints in this ep for this season or did I really missed them (apart from the thing with Donna and he future), I can't believe it, it would be the first ep without them...
ReplyDelete"even though she dies here he still meets her several times in HIS future and possibly even marries her in HIS future. That means in his future he isn't with rose, he is with river song."
ReplyDeleteI get the his future/her past thing. I think we mean different things by "end up". I meant he can't end up with someone who dies; you're not looking at ending up so permanently, are you? I misunderstood and was rude. My bad.
Is it just me or does it feel like RTD is setting up lots of opportunities for future series? River Song, Jenny, etc? It feels like several of these points could develop into spin-offs or big future plots. Sort of like he wants to go out leaving a few possible big bankers for the future
ReplyDeleteAh my comment has been saved! Not safe - saved!
ReplyDelete:-)
I managed to freeze the picture of the diary on Youtube, but I can't make out what it says...
ReplyDeletehttp://youtube.com/watch?v=2nu46Cuzmuo
and pause at about 3:38
"I get the his future/her past thing. I think we mean different things by "end up". I meant he can't end up with someone who dies; you're not looking at ending up so permanently, are you? I misunderstood and was rude. My bad."
ReplyDeletethats the fun of bloggers! I understand what you mean too - i think the writers are gonna have to address song at some point in the future - especially if she is with him in his current regeneration.
Maybe i didn't see anything on the diary page - i wonder whether donna still has the diary!
Was anyone else disappointed with the lack of book activity in fotd? I thought they were going to read the spoiler books!
Has anyone else noticed that, in the photostory on the BBC site, there are actually photos of the WRITINGS inside the diary? (Yes, there were writings...) It's really difficult to read, but if anyone could make some sense out of it that would be great.
ReplyDelete(It's located near the end... in the 20s.)
Ah yes! And the captions are for image 25 "Who wants to know what happens in Series Five" and for image 26 "Spoilers"! I can only make out the odd word like "golden". "emperor's" and "ending". One thing's for sure - River Song has appalling handwriting!
ReplyDelete"Bad News
ReplyDeleteIf you look closely at the wall in Charlotte's house you will see two of her drawings are of a blonde girl and a wolf. Make of these what you will..."
on the doctor who site they mention this on the fact file. why would they point it out? do they normally do this with spoilers?
Ok, here's a thought. Do I believe RS is Rose, yes. Could I be wrong, of course.
ReplyDeleteHere's my theory:
How is it possible that Rose wasn't fundamentally changed when she absorbed the time vortex. First of all, we are talking about a very old and very powerful energy. Secondly, she brought immortal life to Jack with just a touch of that power, so, it must have affected her physiology.
Moving on, The Doctor makes references in Jon Pertwee's era and later on that the Timelords were much like humans until the harnessed the power of a blackhole. Until that point, Timelords didn't regenerate. When Rass, Omega and The Other harnessed the power of a collapsed star (The Eye of Harmony) then the people of Gallifrey became the Timelords we know and love today.
Think about, Rose absorbed all that power. It changed the physiology of the Timelords; therefore, it quite possibly changed Rose's physiology as well. Not to mention all the coincidences that tie RS and Rose together, as previously mentioned by another blogger.
But, it's just a theory like any other.
What do you think?
Don't you think the only reason the Doctor told her his name was because he knew he did? :)) He wouldn't be able to save her if he didn't know he will trust her one day. So he actually might tell her simply because it was the only way to save her life, and whatever dark secret is behind his name he valued life more.
ReplyDeleteEven if she is his future wife, I wouldn't jump to conclusion that this is the only reason he could tell someone his real name. I do hope he meant something far less obvious.
hey who turned out the light but no one did
ReplyDelete