SPOILER WARNING
Speculation has begun over a scene in the recent episode, Flesh and Stone, which showed two Doctors on-screen. During the scene where Amy had to close her eyes to save her life, the Doctor (without his jacket) disappears, but then he returns with his jacket in a very emotional moment. Fandom has begun speculating over the cause of this and the involvement of this in the series finale. There have also been some other scenes in the previous episodes which showed the Eleventh Doctor from the future making a brief appearance, usually marked by an impromptu change in the scene's pacing.What do you think?
33 comments:
I think it's just a continuity error.
They're always predicting this sort of thing. They never happen.
It's an accident.
Nope, it wasn't a continuity error at all ;)
Can you post a compilation of those other scenes in the previous episodes?
Will do when I get round to making the episode summaries :)
Um... if he's supposed to be wearing his jacket, then why are his forearms visible. Surely, if he were wearing his jacket, the sleeves would be all the way down. Nope. It's just people wanting something that isn't there.
I agree with the deliberateness of this scene. I need to go back and figure out what he told her that was so important when she was younger. I think that may be a big clue.
It was important that she remembers and he couldn't tell her. That may be how he survives.
Yeah this isn't a continuity error, look at the pacing.
One Doctor is like bye Amy!
Second Doctor is much more emotional and doesn't involve her in anything important to the angels plot it seemed
Also as soon as that episode breaks suddenly the Doctor is with River, as if he never staid behind for that scene.
Also the other Doctor had a different shirt as well.
How do you KNOW it's not a continuity error though?
Mac how do you know it wasn't a continuity error?
Oh believe me, it wasn't a continuity error ;) Just remember in the last episode, when you see a certain person go back in time and you'll think "Ah, Mac said it wasn't a continuity error." :D
Also remember a scene in the first episode which could have happened. Was that shadow really Prisoner Zero? Just a little tease :P
Yes, I'm also curious to this happening in previous episodes.
501 - Right as the doctor leaves little Amelia, we see a silhouette of a humanoid figure running through the inside of her house. Prisoner Zero just recently arrived, so he couldn't have taken human form.
But where are these other "hints" that the doctor is crossing over his own timeline?
When little Amelia is outside, we see shadows outside too. Also, the supposed "dream scene" where Amy dreams that her younger self is waiting could be the start of another interference.
DWM 420 production notes, Moff says "keep the following (the answers) 3) Ah! Ah! But where in the episode does it say it's the second time? No, see, it doesn't. So nyer. In fact, the use of the word "keep" in scene 23 would suggest that it isn't the second time". Am assuming this in Eleventh Hour and the hint is that the Doctor meets Amy between the two events we see. That would fit with him crossing back. Another question- how did Amy leave a message to herself in The Beast Below?
When he returns, he doesn't have his jacket either? However, when he leaves his sleeves are down, and when he comes back they've been rolled up, though you don't see him do it. So, maybe. I'm glad it's more subtle again- I thought the whole crack in the wall thing was far too obvious to be the whole story arc, expecially when compared to the subtelty of the other series' (mr. saxon, bad wolf etc)
noelypb That comment referred to the Doctor meeting River Song 'the second time' which to us viewers, is correct. But it's not :P And Amy records the message because there is a record button, just like how Liz 10 recorded the message for herself.
It is part of a plot. Amy cant remember the Daleks and when he pops back(jacket on) he is trying to get her to remember he says "remember what i told you when you were 7?" she say's what did you tell me? and he says "THAT'S THE POINT" Refering to the fack that she cannot remember things..they are being wiped from her mind mabe?
I think the Doc just put up his sleeves...There wouldn't be a second doctor around...
If there was then there might be a paradox. If a previous Doctor sees 11, then he'll know that 11 exists. 10 got worried that he was going to die, but that wouldn't make sense if he saw his future self earlier!
Another thing...I think Amy has some type of short-term memory loss. If she didn't remember the Daleks, and she can't remember what he said when she was 7, then there might some amnesia going on...
I actually thought that with his sleeves rolled up, he wasn't wearing a jacket, and so it was a continuity error. However, if you look at the shot just before he leaves Amy, you can see that he's actually wearing his brown jacket, with the sleeves rolled up.
Seeing that clip again, it could be one of three things:
1 - An added scene similar to Series 3's 'Smith and Jones'
2 - A simple continuity error, maybe filmed later that the actual shot.
3 - Another Doctor hopping from adventure to another urging Amy on (getting her to remember and not telling her) so as to get her to remember something important for the finale.
I don't know why, but after reading the speculations here, I starting making connections between the hints we got so far and it is starting to make sense. Maybe it was too obvious for some fans, like ratty, but I just started speculating about the links between Pandora, the cracks in the skin of the universe and... No, I am not going to write it, but I am going to give you a hint. ;)
What is in the Pandora box besides the worst evils of the universe? Now, what in Doctor Who's universe symbolizes that?
Eleventh Hour 1:00:53 the crack is on the monitor in the TARDIS, suggesting that it is the reason the Doc has gone back for Amy. It's as though he knows what is going to happen (or has already happened in the intervening 2 years - but Amy doesn't remember). Is time already being re-written?
How do you know all these things about the finale mac?
and i agree... it can't be just a continuity error, now I wonder what he said to amy when she was 7?
I only know a few little details :P
The jacket was taken off him by the Angels, so there is absolutely no reason for him to be wearing in that scene. If it was a error in contiuity, the chances are with the amount of cuts between the close up shots of Amy and the Doctor in that scene, the jacket would of been visible more so. It seems too clearly now as a deliberate but subtle set-up to a later storyline. The fact that Amy could open her eyes, all the clerics were around the perimeter focusing on the angels. Besides which, if the Doctor had gone back to speak to Amy again, surely River and Octavian would of waited since it was the Doctor that was leading the way.
"Frankly", there are a lot worst evils in the Who universe, very difficult. What i seem to be more intrigued by is the amnesia theme running through the series, I get a sense that this could be Moffats own version of the Time War device, something that RTD used to get around a lot of the bridges between the previous series. If the events of the Doctor's past are being unwritten, it gives Moffat a cleaner slate to work on with his version of the series. It's like the Doctor's footprints in the sand are being washed away.
I went back and watched the first episode again and there were a few things he could be refering to. However, I believe The Doctor is refering to how he told Amy to close the crack. Something to the effect of opening it wide open.
humm! sure the Moffat won't use one of rtd's ideas as the 2 doctor thing has been done
I thought the cracks were going to teased throughout the entire series leading up the finale. Now I think its got something to do with the two doctors and one of them telling Amy to remember what he told her when she was little.
I'm curious if anyone else has noticed in "Eleventh Hour", at the end of the episode, there's a monitor in the TARDIS that's displaying 2 waveforms. The camera and music focus on this, then the Doctor taps the panel and there's a flash frame of...something.
Watch the episode again to see what I mean...or am I an idiot for not noticing this already? Is there a screen grab of it?
Anon, As I already mentioned above, the crack appears on the TARDIS Monitor during Eleventh Hour at 1:00:53. Also interesting that if you consider that the Doctor 'found' his shirt, jacket, maroon bow tie and braces randomly at the Hospital in Ep 1, then how come he also has another matching set in blue? Wierd huh! Got quite defensive too when Amy pointed out he 'kept the clothes'!
i think i wasnt a error cause if i is the two doctors river and the other dude were gone, amy had her eyes closed and the rest of the soldiers were busy watching the angels..... it your choice to believe what you want but we are going to have to wait till 26.6.10 when the series ends........
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