Finale
Episode Location: Unknown (Earth??)
Aliens/Enemies: Davros, Daleks
New Characters: Captain Jack, Sarah-Jane, Martha, Rose, Mickey, Jackie
Gadgets Used: Unknown
Episode Objective: Unknown
NOTE: Since this page is getting a bit crowded, I've separated the two episodes into their own sections, which you can see here:
Episode 12
Episode 13
HOWEVER, there are some set reports which are unclear from what episode they are from, so I have kept them in this page since it still acts as a general finale roundup.
What we know (or think we know)
The finale is set on Earth... apparently in Leeds, and its Daleks Daleks Daleks! Theres high (very high) speculation of Davros returning although nothing is confirmed as of yet.
However, although Davros may be back, he might not be the head evil guy... apparently the Master may be back and is the one calling the shots. BUT who knows if he still has the same face... theres news of botched regenerations and possible character split/swaps
Either way, who ever the big bad is, the Doctor needs all the help he can get!
Among the hundreds (well, not really hundreds) of people who will be in the finale, we have:
- Donna
- Wilf
- Sylvia
- Sarah-Jane
- Martha
As for enemies, they seem to be trying really really hard to keep them underwraps. Even the trailers of the actors have code names on them:
Sarah-Jane!
There have been lots of discussions about Elizabeth Sladen returning as Sarah-Jane... mostly along the lines of "yes she is", "no she isn't!" but She IS back. We've seen her filming.
And Sarah-Jane gets more than just a cameo: 'Its not like Sarah-Jane pops up and says "I agree". Everyone gets their moment in the sun.' (RTD)
Captain Jack!
The Daily Star reported that:
Captain Jack Harkness, is to be brought back for an amazing end-of-series climax.
The Doctor will be seriously hurt in an explosion and he will have to rely on Jack, Sarah Jane Smith and Rose to come to his rescue.
John Barrowman: "Let's just say there is always the possibility that when the Doctor needs help to fight off someone or something, he calls on Jack... He is the muscle and guns man. I can't say too much – wait and see."
The Doctor will be seriously hurt in an explosion and he will have to rely on Jack, Sarah Jane Smith and Rose to come to his rescue.
John Barrowman: "Let's just say there is always the possibility that when the Doctor needs help to fight off someone or something, he calls on Jack... He is the muscle and guns man. I can't say too much – wait and see."
Jack is allegedly the last of the companions to be introduced to the plot and meet up with the gang. He's brought in as the gang realize they need more muscle, Jack is very much in "Save the Day" mode for the finale
Rose & Mickey!
Now that we know these two are definitely returning, I'm more inclined to believe this story by Dewi Evan (from the DWF)
A woman on a train was spotted editing a bullet-point list headed DWS4 on her laptop.
Part of the document that referred to "a conversation between Mickey and Rose in Episode 13" and was about the time it took for something to recharge. There was some concern about whether this throwaway comment, which referred to a device in episode 12, would be understood by a viewer.
Davros!
Theres been lots of talk of Davros returning for the finale... its still unconfirmed by the BBC, BUT...
A new Davros toy is being brought out soon, which does sort of suggest that Davros may be returning.
An opera singer was rehearsing at the London Welsh Centre next to where they were rehearsing/filming Doctor Who. He heard what sounded like Davros saying something about being leader of the Daleks, and afterward saw David Tennant and Catherine Tate leaving the building.
And now, according to Lord Scooty, Davros is back and Julian Bleach is playing him.
Set Reports:
(These are the reports that I'm unsure about - I don't know which episode they fit in to)
1st report of filming
(Episode 12?)
David Tennant and Catherine Tate were there, running around as the TARDIS was set up but they were on the whole missed by the Who spotters.
BUT the main news is this:
We now have Rose Tyler in the finale, on her own, with a giant gun!
Jon from the DWF had this to say about it all. "what I saw was a short scene involving a crashed milk truck. Broken bottles strewn over the street. The milkman (actor's first name was "Andrew") was standing by his crashed truck. A wind machine was blowing nearby and Andrew had to turn and look up at something in the sky. A camera crane was overhead filming him from above."
And Mugim0e says this: "There was a milk float used in some of the filming earlier on. the crew were rocking the float in a scene. Billie was holding a very large gun and they took aerial shots of her looking up and cocking the gun."
Sorry, the quality is not brilliant, but you can clearly see Piper with her gun.
Jon: "Taking into account what I saw, and judging by mugim0e's photos of Billie, the sequence seems to be Rose with her big gun. She cocks it, then vanishes as she gets teleported/beamed up somewhere. A passing milkman sees this and crashes his truck. He gets out and turns to see something pass overhead (a spaceship) and fly off into the night sky.
2nd report of filming
(episode 12?)
Emilyd187 happened to chance upon some filming but was unable to take any pictures. Still, we thank very much!
Sarah-Jane was in a car and Daleks were threatening to "Exterminate" her. Then they shot a bit where Mickey comes in and gets Sarah-Jane out the car, and Jackie comes in asking where her daughter is.
Filming went on till quite early in the morning.
Speculation
- Rose is much more grown up and in fact is in a relationship with somebody from Pete's world, somebody other than Mickey.
- The Doctor will have to make a horrific choice on which of his companions he will leave behind to their death. This was speculated to be Donna, but from scenes that have now been seen filmed, this may not be the case.
- There will "definitely" be a regeneration in the series, but its unconfirmed as to who will be regenerating.
- According to The Doctor's Trainers, there will be another Supreme Dalek which is coloured red, has 3 'ear' lamps and a different gun
- Harriet Jones is returning in the finale and is either in league with the Daleks, OR actually becomes the Supreme Dalek herself... "Davros and the Daleks force Harriet Jones to become a Dalek, and in doing so turns her in to the Supreme Dalek as Davros knows she is a great leader."
- According to Zavros, Rose Tyler dies at the end of the series. And it will be a "very Absolom Daak moment, like at the end of his first story."
And thanks to Tyrst75 I now know that Abslom's first story ends like this:
Transported to the planet Mazam which was under attack by the Daleks, he destroyed a Dalek task force single-handedly and rescued the Princess Taiyan, with whom he fell in love. Tragically, however, she was killed by a Dalek survivor that Daak had overlooked, leaving Daak grief-stricken and vowing to exterminate every Dalek in the galaxy.
(A big thank you to Scooty, Brigade_leader, Brian_Damage, Simon, tomlou, Jon, Mugim0e, SpaceyGal, Deej, IanB, The Doctor's Trainers, and Zavros for the info, pics & video!)
159 comments:
Bring on Davros I say :) with today's special effects he will be one nasty looking dude :)
I'm just hoping as a 'shipper' that Rose and The Doctor will get a scene together :) Awwwww
Australia won't even get episode one before the UK has finished S4 - but it's worth the wait for the return of Rose, Sarah Jane, K9, Capitan Jack, Davros and the Daleks
What a brilliant way to leave the fans while David Tennant goes to do some stage work :)
whilst i know that "the darleks allwasy come back" i think newer who fans will who are used to things like lost, heroes, x files and buffy for there sci-fi might roll there eyes at another enemie revival after there is only one darlek left.
Though i would like to see how they would bring back davros and make him a bit more realistic.
If Davros is in this episode, I'm guessing it will be the last battle of the Time War.
Maybe the Doctor Regenerates, maybe he stays, maybe Davros is truly beaten. Obviously, it's not the last of the Daleks, but it should be an amazing episode.
I think dalek caan who is the last dalek in existance will find davros to build new daleks to wage war against the universe!
Do you think Dalek Cann is the Dalek from "Dalek" Season One
nope defenetly not. the Dalek you are refering to was a soldier who as you may remember atomized himself at the end of the episode. dalek cann is part of the cult of scaro and escaped from the doctot at the rnd of evelution of the daleks. so no go.
that dalek could be dalek caan, the last we saw of him was when he teleported away(we dont know where)
the dalek in the episode "dalek" had fallen through time, the doctor only guessed it had fallen through time from the time war as he didnt yet know of the cult of scaro being real, so maybe dalek caan teleported into some trouble and fell through time to appear on earth for the episode "dalek"
I sort of doubt it... The whole point of making Dalek Caan be the surviver was so that the Daleks can always be brought back, if he was the Dalek from "Dalek" then that would technically mean that there were no more Daleks left in the world.. and that would mean they would never appear in another story.
Also, the Dalek in "Dalek" was most definitely a soldier, we told that it fell to Earth and lay in a smoldering crater for 5 or so days, and Caan's temporal shift wouldn't have done that.
I guess that makes sense, but Davros could still be out there so dalek caan may not be the only one left,
Christ the Doc's wet!!!
This is very important I met Nick Brigg's yesterday at convention and I asked him what voices are you doing in series 4 and he said none, he's not in it but he might have been lying so he didn't give anything away.
Yeah, in an interview Briggs said that he hadn't been called to do any voices YET but that was before the finale had started filming.
Was the convention before the finale started filming? And yes, he could be lying. grrr!
But surely there's got to be a "What?" moment inside the TARDIS after the Doctor goes inside? Actually saying that it would be nice if there wasn't. A bit of change to prepare us for the specials.
yet anuther companion leaving the doctor. they really need to find an actor that will stay on the series for a while.
but we all knew C.T would nether stay as the doctors companion
As I understand, they only hired Catherine Tate for one series to begin with, it's not a matter of her wanting to leave.
Maybe the "Supreme Dalek" that could be in the finale is Dalek Caan. Also if Harriet Jones is returning but on the Daleks side, then listen up. On Doomsday, the Doctor asks Pete who the PM of the Paralell Universe is, and Pete says Harriet Jones. But then that would mean 2 Harriet Joneses. So maybe if Harriet Jones in the REAL world is good, then paralell to good is bad. So the paralell Harriet is bad, and could come through to the real world the same way as Rose, and help the Daleks. Or when the Doctor gets lost in time, maybe he falls through the same gap as Rose and the paralell universe and then the gap closes leaving the Doctor stranded in the paralell universe. Like the TARDIS falls through the gap.
The beach looks like bad wolf bay. (where the doctor and rose said good bye at end of doomsday.) Maybe the crack in time opens up or something. as for the pants tennant is wearing in that shot with donna (next to the pic of doctor in blue suit,) could they be rain/ wind pants or something? You can't really see them very well after all.
Yep, it was filmed in the same place so it is quite possible that its Bad Wolf Bay.
And yes, they could just be protective trousers... but that in itself seems odd to me. When Tennant was filming Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel and it was freezing cold and snowing he didn't wear protective trousers... so why would he now?
Wait. I've asked the person who was at the shoot about the trouser issue and I'm just waiting for a reply now. Hang on...
Apparently Tennant was wearing the same outfit that he was for the earlier shoot (where he got soaked) so it IS the brown suit as well as the blue one.
Alternative Universe Doctor?
No, that would make my head explode. No more twisting and turning plots, please.
What if one of the Daleks was all of the rumours put together: The Supreme Dalek with a red paint coat, three head lamps and a special weapon. THAT would be cool! It would be even cooler if the supreme Dalek with red paint, three ears and a differant weapon was Dalek Caan. od, I'm gonna have good dreams!!!
Um... I think thats what is implied. The supreme Dalek IS red coloured, with the head lamps, and a new gun (and is also Harriet Jones apparently) Sorry if that message wasn't clear.
Absolutely brilliant. Thanks for the fantastic spoilers. Definitely made my day. Keep up the good work! - Neil
I believe that there is only one doctor. no alt universe one. don't know where I heard that but thought i would just add it in.
I thought the doctor said (I think in S2) he knew if any daleks were about. Wouldn't he have known if Davros was about. It may have been that they were in the Rose universe. I think to explain Davros/Rose/Mickey coming through the void:
When the toclafane came through, the void split.
When time went back one year on the valiant, it actually went back TWO years, and the TARDIS appears right in front of Rose, just as the hologram dissappears. Would be kind of cool, that!
Now that doesn't make too much sense. The Doctor couldn't have known if there were Daleks about or else he would have sensed them in the Long Game, Bad Wolf, the very start of Doomsday, and Daleks in Manhattan. He can sense Time Lords but not Daleks.
Still, the idea of a parallel Davros is still a very real possibility. Perhaps the Harriet Jones who gets Dalek'd is the parallel one who's President. As the Doctor said, "Keep an eye on her."
Yes, the Archon is right, the Doctor can sense Time Lords but not Daleks.. otherwise he would have immediately known what the 'metaltron' was in Dalek.
yeah, my mistake.
5th of march start 'fingers crossed'
RTD could make it really confusing by having alternate davros's, daleks and the such. What's better that one Davros? Two Davros's!
From what it looks like here there wont be time war this season. If they did have one you HAVE TO show eclleston and mcgann in a regeneration scene.
There really should be alternate doctor in this universe. Everyother instance where the doctor has crossed over to a parrallel universe has had another doctor. I think they should bring in one of the alternate doctors from one of the audios or the Valeyard. The valeyard manipulating everything would be a great treat.
Hmmm... alternate universe Time Lords? I may have to check my facts, but I was under the impression that Time Lords live outside the universe anyway. Gallifrey is part of its own time bubble sort of thing. So Time Lords can travel to alternate universes (or they could before Gallifrey was destroyed) but there would never be alternate versions of themselves... which sort of ruins your brilliant idea sorry!
And no... they may not cover the Time War. Although, there are Daleks, and Davros (who must have survived the Time War unless he's parallel) and IF there is a flashback of Skaro as well... Hmmm, it may not be the focus, but it could be mentioned at least.
Has there been alternate Doctor's in alternative universes? I haven't seen many of the classic episodes so I don't really know... but if there is then that goes against Gallifrey being in its own time bubble... ah! Now I'm confused!
But yes, the Valeyard would be ace, although he would have to look like the 6th, 7th or 8th Doctor since its around that incarnation
yeah during inferno an alternate doctor apeared as a dictator of the country in control. The Valeyard could in theory be played by the same actor because you never see him die. He laughs at the end of trial of the timelord and was planned to comeback for the season that never was during the 7th doctors tenure(ie show canceled). He would have been a jack the ripper figure tearing between the voids and dimension. Michael Jayston still looks good and could pull it off. The eight doctor although only having one apearance encountered numerous other doctors through all his parellel travels in audio and novel. The seventh actually took the tardis of an alternate third doctor when that doctor died during the events in the siluirians. If it was done then it would have to be done right as not to mess anything up. Delicate situation. Very.....
These are interesting theories, but I get the impression that RTD likes to keep things simple. Even with the Master last season, he brought him back using factors introduced in the new series. Whoever shows up in the finale, be it the Valeyard or Davros, they'll appear by a relatively straight-forward way. If anyone appears from the old series, they will appear with simplicity. This is how it worked with the daleks, cybermen, and the master.I mean, little kids watch this show. They're not just going to spring 3 universes on us.
And I'm not even fully convinced the villain's going to be Davros. True, the presence of Daleks makes it likely, but somewhere I heard Davies expressed interest in making a brand new baddie, one that would have a continuing impact on the show like the Cybermen and Master. We shall see.
"but somewhere I heard Davies expressed interest in making a brand new baddie, one that would have a continuing impact on the show like the Cybermen and Master. We shall see."
Where did you hear this?
Maybe the gun Rose has is like the one from Doomsday and Army of Ghosts, the type that Mickey, Jake and paralell Torchwood have.
If Rose Tyler dies, I will NEVER watch this show again. I'm so glad she's coming back, but it's pointless if it's just going to be for a few episodes and then she's dead. Come on, DW people, you have got to be better than that. Rose was a great addition in the Doctor's life, and it would just ruin the show if you actually killed her. Leave her on a parallel world again, please.
Too right. Plus isnt that beach called Dalegoagstrafen (or something like that). Is it not also the same beach that the doctor made a point about getting wrong and saying dalek instead of daleg in Doomsday. Could be something or nothing I spose but maybe they could use it as a plot device?
"GREENHOUSE GASES AT ALL TIME HIGH" could this mean that Earth has been struck by Global Warming? And could the Daleks live on Earth because of low ammount of humans? Is Davros on Earth? If so, could Global Warming have affected him? Could this be in the near future when Global Warming is expected to happen? And could it be the Daleks (or Davros) who are giving off the Greenhouse Gases? Because of Global Warming and Greenhouse Gases, could the Daleks have the time to destroy Earth with no one to stop them? Not even the injured Doctor? Or Rose, Jack, Donna, Mickey, Jackie or Sarah-Jane, maybe even Pete? Could the crashed milk cart be what the Doctor was chasing? Could it have been Rose who shot the Doctor as she has a big gun? Or could the big gun be used to destroy a Dalek, or the Dalek that COULD shoot the Doctor? Is Rose running to the Doctor because the Dalek is going to shoot him? Or is the Doctor cahsing the van while Rose is being chased by the Dalek that shouts exterminate contionuosly? Could it be the SAME Dalek that shoots the Doctor? So many questions, so little time...
i just want to know where is Martha jones in all this mayem.
Ah yes, the Doctor can't just leave at the end of the episode without a companion. There's got to be a cliffhanger. In The Shakespeare Code, Queen Elizabeth said that the Doctor was her sworn enemy, and the Doctor said he didn't know why. So could the cliffhanger for the Christmas episode be Queen Elizabeth in the TARDIS. And if the Doctor hasn't got a companion, then maybe he meets a new one in Elizabethan times.
Yeah, i'd like to see what all the Queen Elizabeth stuff in "The Shakespeare Code" was about? Maybe it has something to do with a possible new companion or maybe it's just "loose end", that'll be catched up in the future series?
Oh, i guess we'll have to wait :)
^^ And sorry for possible mistakes in the english. It's not my motherlanguage.. :)
To me, I don't think that the Cybermen are in the Christmas episode. I mean, you can't just go from Daleks and Davros to Cybermen. It's got to downgrade, like Daleks-Sycorax, Daleks+Cybermen-Racnoss, Master-Host. They gotta come up with something new. But the Cybermen could be in the 3 2009 specials in a 3-parter. That would be a bit of action before 2009 Christmas and Series 5.
haha what a weird thing. according to freema agyeman's website, mickey is her boyfriend! it says that it was included in an email what martha sent to jack in torchwood, but i dont know if that means on the show torchwood or if in real life freema sent a script message to john (well, ya know, jack)
very crowded .................................so lets crowd it even more
i heard according to the sun penelope wilton (harriet jones0 had to be smuggled onto the set because it was such a secret of her returning
I haven't really seen anyone on these comments link in the end of Series 3 where the Masters ring is picked up after he is cremated by an unknown hand to Series 4. Any ideas of whether that event will impact S4?
Aye, there are reports and all sorts about Harriet Jones..
Oh, and with the new rumors about the Master being back I think maybe the ring will be important..
The 7th doctor died and then started regenerating several hours afterwards. Perhaps the Master's ashes will do the same.......or perhaps his DNA is stored via Lazarus technology and he will be re-born.
Okay something that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Little Red Riding Hood...
Hiding the real identity of who ever that is... (I quite like the idea of Red Super Dalek Harriet Jones) the thing is think back to the nursery rhymes - who was little red ridings hoods enemy?
The Big Bad Wolf. As in Miss Rose Tyler!!! There has also been an rumours that the doctor swaps bodies, and that the master is the one in control of Davros. So if David Tennants tenth doctor swaps bodies then it can keep him in it but not as much, for the 2009 specials, where David Tennant (The Master) is being chased by The Doctor in an attempt to get his body back, especially as Lucy Saxon got Harolds Ring (maybe she pops it on his finger and restores him) This would also be a way to have Queen Elizabeth pissed off with him and not show it as she met David Tennants character and he calls himself The Doctor when he is actually The Master. I don't mean this in a face/off way despite the fact its is being advertise as on this weekend, just a coincidence.
We don't know what else Harold Saxon was upto during that 18 months between arriving and becoming PM
Also as we know The Master ran away from the time war and how would he do this... Tardis, HIS Tardis not the doctors especially as it cant be set up to travel without a timelord in control (Ref: Blink) he travelled back to the end of the universe let Lucy pilot it back to our present time whilst he used the PROPER Tardis and set up the way through for the toclafane.
Silly idea - WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HARRIET JONES PUT ON THE MASTERS RING? oh I can't believe i didnt think of it before thats brilliant how to make Harriet evil. Please tell me what you think of that...
(TAKES DEEP BREATH) Aham... WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW (ANOTHER DEEP BREATH) WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW! Erm, basically, WOW!!! Right now I think I need a Doctor because I think I've worn out my voicebox by shouting WOW so many times. HAHA LOL
how was davros destroyed in the timewar? cus if he was put in the genesis arc then hes now floating around the void somewhere. i know that would mean that davros would have been in doomsday but he could still have been inside the genesis arc cus when they were all sucked into the void the arc was still chucking them out. somehow dalek caan must open the void, free the daleks and rose follows through.
i dont think the master will be back this series its a little too soon. The ring will probably have something to do with it, it looks a bit like rassilons ring. just thinking, lucy saxon could have been pregnant....
Is the speculation section COMPLETELY speculation? All this "According to..." stuff seems like they know somehow, which doesn't make any sense. If, according to these individuals, what they say is true, then why is it in the speculation section? CONFUSED!
The speculation section is mostly what people have said but it either sounds unbelievable, doesn't fit with the story, or has nothing to back it up...
If someone regenerates then that means the Master is back as DT is confirmed for the 2009 specials. I really hope they don't bring in any more 'chameleon arch' characters.
I was just thinking - Maybe the hand that grabbed the masters ring belonged to the Rani. Then she might be the one that regenerates in the finale. I've also seen pics of the Rani where she seems to be wearing red nail polish.
sorry i havent read this in ages but about the above thing...WAY WAY above thing about paralel uni time lords- they ocupy 1 place in time and space, they are sort of separate so if thye were destroyed they have been destroyed from all time and space- sorry its long and rambling...sounded better in my head
I reckon martha and mickey are replacing toshiko and owen in torchwood. thing about it martha is a doctor and mickey is good wiv computers and they were seen walking away wiv jack at the end of the series. well lets hope so!!!
you know there is a sign sayin global warming all time high or somthing like that- well think back to doomsday when pete said that the temperature had risen by 3 degrees in a year i think it is- well this makes it seem like its the other uni or these unis are colliding again.
Jess, since you look like you are pretty involved in answering questions, I have another for you. The whole theory of Rose dying at the end of the series is spreading everywhere, and I'd like your opinion. Is there any evidence supporting this, or are people just speculating because apparently she's not continuing on with the Doctor after Journey's End? I will be very upset if she dies, and I would like to know your opinion. Thank you! Anyone else's opinions would be appreciated, also. Or facts, if you know them!
Hmmm... from what I know, theres not much that hints Rose dying. There are rumors I've heard that the Doctor will have to make a choice of one of his companions to stay behind and (consequently) die.
But from what I gather, most of it is the same kind of speculation that happens with the Doctor every year ("he's going to regenerate! Even though he's doing the Christmas special, He'll still regenerate!")
But, as well as saying theres nothing to prove she is going to die, theres also nothing to prove that she's not. RTD can do anything he likes and he has a habit of lying in interviews and always finding new ways of shocking the audience.
Somehow I sort of doubt she will die, but what do I really know?! I think its always good to sit on the fence with this sort of thing, irritating as that is!
maybe billie piper does stay on beause i havnt seen her on any interviews of late which could mean she has been banned from talking to the public because of her perniment return which would spoil the surprise of the finale
You mention that John simm has recorded some scenes for series 4. Well, how about this? If, in episode 10/11 the Doctor has been taken out of time, then he wouldn't be around to defeat the Master. Or the Racnoss for that matter. So logically the Master is still alive, but if the Racnoss climb up the flue with no Doc to drown 'em then that would scupper the Master's plans for the Toclafane. Maybe he hasn't even thought of them yet - he's too busy dealing with the Racnoss who have taken over London, thus weakening the city ready for a Dalek invasion?
Red riding hood? Well, Lucy Saxon was dressed in red...
was he taken out of time in 10/11?
even then, he would have been around to stop the racnoss. you may not have worded it right, but i'm not sure what you meant. some re-wording could help please. jess, if you understand it, what do you think?
it's a good idea, just needs more explaining.
is the doctor left with no companion at the end of all this? i think that one of them should stay on cus he's had quite alot.
Yeah, it would be nice to have a companion that lasts more than one season with DT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_story_arcs
Here Davies says that there have been seeds planted about the finale and there are small but vital references going all the way back to Series 1. My money's on it being Davros because I think RTD is referring to the episode "Dalek" where the Doctor subtly brings up Davros, not by name, saying something like he was the king of his own little world.
I'm pretty sure a subtle Davros reference was made in EotD in Series 3. Also, it's mentioned often that Daleks were designed to have their emotions removed except hate, which begs the question, "Designed by who?"
Re my previous post. It was just something that related to a different page here (episode 11 series 4). Someone had commented that Donna was in her wedding dress for a scene (poss. flashback?) as per Runaway Bride. It also mentioned that it is possible that the Doc had been taken out of time and that the Racnoss was back. Putting two and two together and coming up with five, I postulated that if the above was true (the Doc bit), then it could be that the Racnoss had taken over London, thus paving the way for a possible Dalek invasion in the last two eps.
Sorry if it wasn't very clear.
Anyway.
Re the Master/Yana. If John Simm really has recorded some scenes, then having the Doctor being taken out of time after his visit to Utopia could be a way of bringing the Master back. The Doctor wouldn't be around to defeat him. (although this kinda screws up the Racnoss theory!).
Another possible way is via a clone, either using Sontaran technology or perhaps that left behind by Lazarus?
How about this though. The Master Lucy Saxon shot was the clone. That's why he didn't regenerate - he couldn't. The real Master having used the chameleon arch in the Doctor's Tardis and made himself human. The Master's Timelord essence being stored in a ring - recovered by Lucy Saxon after the fuss had all died down.
Actually, throw in a regeneration and that's not a half bad way to bring the Master back.
Or do I need to up my medication?
Nurse...?
This Julian Bleach fella would make a superb Davros. Check out the Torchwood episode he was in, close your eyes and he sounds very like Michael Wisher.
OMG. Really. I'm loving CT, and I'm loving the whole plot set up, but REALLY what is the point in Killing off Rose. I doubt that the Dr would sacrifice Martha, and if he sacrifices Rose, as much as I would like it I reckon she would not be changed ENOUGH by the TARDIS to regenerate, therefore, her with a big gun, and being the 'only in from a parallel universe who can help Donna' I doubt that she will make it out alive.
I'm loving the WHOLE CAST set-up, it looks great,
But the thing that boggles me is how different Rose looks in the red top (or rather back to her old look) and OBVIOUSLY in the parallel universe judging by the cybernet industries adverts on the thing next to thier chats/filming.
If they Kill of Tyler, I will be unpleased, and they will obviously have to kill of mickey and her mother.
Sorry, I'm confused - for the queen Elizabeth thing, isnt she just pissed off at him cos of the werewolf episode, where she meets him and forms torchwood and names him as her enemy??
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Different Queen... Queen Elizabeth is from Shakespeare's time, Queen Victoria is from the Werewolf episode.
Atheniandream, I really don't understand your logic about Rose. I don't think the Doctor would sacrifice Rose before Martha, since he never had as much of a strong relationship with Martha. And being the only one who can help Donna and having a big gun, how do you reach the conclusion that she will not survive??? Also, what are you talking about when you refer to her old look??? Although, I do agree, I see no point in killing Rose.
The lack of Martha spoilers is killing me!
"haha what a weird thing. according to freema agyeman's website, mickey is her boyfriend!"
It doesn't say that anywhere. All it has is a photo of them filming together.
There aren't many photos of Martha doing stuff on the street yeah? And she is a doctor. Maybe she spends most of her time in the TARDIS trying to cure the Doctor or something.
"Little Red Riding Hood"... Ninth Doctor? He was the one associated with "Bad Wolf" after all. ;)
remember in series 2 the satans pit what the beast said to rose, "you will die in battle" could this mean the finale of series 4??? just have to wait and see
I have a thought. What if the Parallel World's splintering is destroying other planets such as the Adiposes home and Pyrovillia
wat if the scenes been photoed on bad wolf bay is were rose came through in the first place because thats where the doc said by to rose because there was that tiny hole in the universe so maybe when the doc closed the little hole in time, it was really weak so maybe if roses universe is colapsing it open the hole there letting her through and in the end mickey jackie and maybe pete
Just a thought!!
tell me wat u think!
that's a fantastic idea. if the ood sphere is destroyed at the end of the episode, then your idea is the best i've seen
I gotta agree thats the best I've heard yet. You are a genius!
And since theres no signs of the Daleks yet it makes the most sense as to why all those planets are vanishing.
if anyone has seen rememberance of the daleks they will see at the end when the daleks ship is blown up a small circle of light comes out of the ship (almost like an escape pod) and flies of screen. Just before that davros said that he was heading for the escape pod. Maybe he escaped and has been lost in space for ages!
I'am the person who suggested the Parallel World would destroy other planets. I have another thought what if the Medusa Cascade rift is opening and drawing the planets in.
Hi
What could that thing be on donnas back and if each planet gets destroyed what if skaro comes alive again
comes alive? lol i know what you mean. the
dalek/s could be building a 'new skaro' as i believe they have mentioned it before.
the thing about new skaro: do you think the daleks will turn earth into new skaro?
the thing about planets dying: pyrovilia and the adipose planet died. someone here said that i might be that the rift is opening (fab idea). do you think the ood travelling the universe is beacuse their planet died? hmm...
could the rift opening have been affected by grays actions in the torchwood finale, causing it to become unstyable?
if there is a botched regeneration in the finale then maybe the doctor has to regenerate to save himself from the injuries sustained by a dalek but the daleks stop him half way through meaning he stays the same or splits into 2!?!?!?!?
Just a thought
I hate to break it to whoever it was that came up with the idea of the planets being destroyed being the story arc, but the Ood Sphere survived. However, Ood Sigma did say to the Doctor "I think your song must end soon".
The Ood sung while in captivity, and it was hauntingly beautiful. What if the Doctor's song is his life as a result of the Time War? Has no one considered the possibility of Journey's End creating a paradox that undoes the Time War, meaning the Master, Daleks, and all those affected by the War are still alive?
It was stated somewhere that Davies might be leaving Doctor Who after the specials for 2009. Maybe he is leaving us with the mother of all episodes: the end/paradox of the Time War! Think about it: Dalek Caan goes back in time and changes the war so that the Daleks win, that creates a paradox that could take the Doctor out of time, and depending on when the war is changed it could mean the Master does not become Yana and flees somewhere else. Then, after all that, in very complicated episodes simplified in that lovable Doctor Who fashion, the Doctor is back, the Time War negated, and the Doctor goes back as if nothing happened. Anyone agree with me?
Another thing: did anyone else notice in the campfire trailer that the Dalek in the center facing the screen appears to have two gunsticks?! The normal one is slightly off, and the other one is big! Go to the bbc's official Doctor Who site for series four, go to videos, select Dalek Trailer, and then just don't click anything but look at the opening screen!
could this Dalek be Harriet Jones turned into a Dalek? or maybe a new race of Daleks created by Davros to once again only obey him? or could it be that Dalek Caan has decided to upgrade the entire Dalek race?
One more thing: A friend of mine accidentally saw filming for Davros while he was working on one of the Doctor Who sets (he wasn't supposed to be at work before they were done, but he went in anyway) and confirms that Davros is back and better than ever!
Very interesting theories Sam. I thought that the Doctor may have his remaining regenerations stripped from him (the white powder flying out his mouth), as the Master tried to do to the 8th Doctor (perhaps it is the Master doing it again or Davros, who let's face it, would probably be clever enough to do that). Then, the various companions don't know what to do, so have to somehow fix it. They use the TARDIS to visit a previous Doctor (perhaps also including their companions) to figure out what to do.
I forgot to say that the current Doctor would also be mortally wounded, otherwise he would just fix it himself!
Interesting what Sam said. I checked out the Dalek trailer on the site. It'snow mysteriously shorter and omits the new Dalek he mentions!
Nice ides re the time war tho.
Also, Donna keeps mentioning the bees disappearing. Don't spiders eat insects like bees? Particularly giant spiders?
I mentioned this before, but what if Donna was possessed by the Racnoss way back in Runaway Bride? This could tie in to the rumour that she is a "baddie" all along.
But as the Doctor's song will end soon, doesn't that hint at a regeneration?
I originally thought that the Doctor's song ending was a regeneration, but Tenant is going to be in the Christmas Special with the Cybermen, and I don't think that the Christmas Special would be soon. But I will admit I could just as easily believe that the Doctor's "song" is his current regeneration.
True, but if the rumours are to be believed re the Master/Doctor switcharound, then Tennant could be playing the Master in the crimbo special! Then again, maybe the regeneration comes at Christmas. It would be a brilliant hook if it did.
Also, everyone get DWM. Read RTD's production notes for a few clues. Particularly, and I quote...
"Wait 'till you see the wilds of Messaline! The Library! The Crucible!" and a bit later in the article, "...all the climactic scenes in the Vault ('After all these years. Can it be...?')"
Wonder what's in the vault that someone recognises? Wonder what the Vault is? Wasn't that Van Statten's place? He had a Dalek didn't he?
And the wilds of Messaline? Is there also a place called the planet of Gilbert? (A very lame Day of the Daleks joke there for those of us old enough).
how could the timewar be undone? i thought that because time itself was used as a weapon, all evidence was removed from time, like it had never happened. thats why the doctor cant go back and change it, because theres nothing there to change
You people drive me insane. Does ANYONE believe that Rose won't die?!?!
I don't think she'll die, if that helps with your temporary insanity.
TORCHWOOD SPOILER ALERT!!!! and possibly Finale Spoiler!!!!!!
Martha doesn't die because she's coming back full-time on Torchwood for series 3, replacing poor dead Owen whose body decomposed from the radiation in the nuclear plant he was trapped in. Mickey doesn't die because he's replacing Toshiko, who got shot by Jack's brother. Jack doesn't die because he can't, so he would be the logical choice to leave behind to get killed since it wouldn't do anything. Rose doesn't die because she is in one of the 2009 specials. Donna might die becau